Why Gwen Cooper Doesn't Suck Rant-times!
May. 24th, 2010 11:22 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
thecopperI'm jumping in on the rant wagon with something I've been meaning to do for a long time.
Gwen is a Mary Sue.
Let me begin with this definition of Mary Sue ganked from Wikipedia:
A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in literary criticism and particularly in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader.
Taking a look at the first part – namely the idealized part and the lack of flaws – I think it's pretty obvious that Gwen doesn't fulfill that in the least. Gwen is hardly idealized, being the sort of woman who is filled to the brim with endless flaws that the very people who label her as a Mary Sue are quick to point out.
However, I will concede on the last point, which perhaps does ring true for Gwen. On the other hand, by doing this she does nothing but fulfill expectations places on any companion in the Who-verse. Like Sarah Jane, or Donna, or Amy, Gwen has done nothing more but be the vehicle in which we, as the audience, have been able to enter, explore, and enjoy the world of Torchwood.
I'd also like to point out that Gwen and Sarah Jane and Amy and any of them are no more Mary Sues than Harry Potter, or Oedipus, or Hamlet. Honestly, a man who's father just happens to die and he happens to see a ghost and his life happens to fall apart to the point that everyone dies around him? Sounds pretty contrived if you think about it, but in the end, that's what makes these stories interesting for us. If ordinary people getting involved in extraordinary circumstances is what makes a Mary Sue, then I really don't see what all the fuss is about.
Gwen is a whore who never loved Rhys/Jack/Owen/Trevor Kendall/Etc.
First off, a basic note on women (and men!): Having sex does not make someone a whore.
Yes, Gwen sleeps around a bit, probably a bit more than is good for her psyche. But, she is human, she has basic, instinctual needs, and anyone who knows how I play Gwen knows that the way I play her is that sex, for her, is a very important aspect for her when it comes to emotional struggle and finding people she can trust.
I think this is supported by canon. When her faith in Rhys falters, she turns to Owen. When it doesn't work out with Owen, she tends to pursue Jack with a little more vigor. This isn't because she doesn't love all three of them in her own way; it's because, at her heart, Gwen is confused and alone and desperate for understanding, and these three men offer her different ways to confront her own fears about herself.
She regrets her affair with Owen, because she knows she is hurting Rhys. She knows what she's done is wrong, but she knows she can't stop because if she does, she'll be lost. It's a crutch for her at times, yes, but sex does negate the fact that she still is still human and still cares about people. If she was using Owen, it was because she saw a choice: trust him or destroy herself. And Owen knew that. It was a clear, consensual arrangement, and even if it wasn't fair to Rhys, it does not, by default, make Gwen a bad person. Confused, lost and in need of guidance, yes. But not bad.
Gwen is trying to break up Jack and Ianto.
Just... no.
Jack is Gwen's best friend. Ianto is Gwen's confidant. Gwen may have very deep and raw feelings for Jack, but she wants him to be happy.
Not to mention, there isn't a single thing in canon that makes Gwen out to be some kind of Jack/Ianto homewrecker. She has enough issues with her relationship with Rhys, and yes, her love for Jack complicates that. But she knows where she belongs in the end, and canon backs that up with spades.
Gwen treats Rhys like shit.
Love is a two way street, and sometimes people don't hit the breaks fast enough.
Let's face it, Rhys says some pretty horrible things to Gwen and vice versa. And no, retconning him to admit her affair was not a great idea. But, like most of the characters in Torchwood, Rhys and Gwen are on a journey of experience, and sometimes the best way to take the next step in that journey is to do something so horribly and utterly wrong and learn from it. Which both Rhys and Gwen have. They aren't meant to be perfect, they are meant to discover themselves and what they truly mean to each other. Sometimes they don't go the best way about it, but it doesn't make their relationship sick or destructive, and it doesn't make Gwen a villain. It just makes them both real.
Gwen is too contradictory to be realistic.
I can't quite grasp the idea of a character being too complex, but I've seen the argument enough I can't exactly ignore it, either.
Gwen isn't any more or any less contradictory than real people. The best way to understand it is by thinking about what Mary told Tosh in Greeks Bearing Gifts about reading people's minds; people don't always think what they mean, and they don't even consciously think what they think. People, sometimes, just feel a way about something and it doesn't even make sense.
And it's no different for Gwen. She is multi-faceted, and sometimes her reactions to situations vary on her mood or her experience or whether or not she's had her morning coffee. Something that makes her cry one day may make her laugh the next. It's not unrealistic, it's human, and it's what makes her as interesting as any character.
Human beings are always contradictory, and that's what makes them realistic to begin with.
Eve Myles is a horrible person because she plays Gwen.
If anyone reading this honestly agrees with this sentiment, I want you to take a moment to read that sentence aloud.
Repeat until you realize how stupid the sentence sounds.
There's my soapbox for the evening. Feel free to question and discuss in the comments, now that you know my point of view on these various matters.
Gwen is a Mary Sue.
Let me begin with this definition of Mary Sue ganked from Wikipedia:
A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in literary criticism and particularly in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader.
Taking a look at the first part – namely the idealized part and the lack of flaws – I think it's pretty obvious that Gwen doesn't fulfill that in the least. Gwen is hardly idealized, being the sort of woman who is filled to the brim with endless flaws that the very people who label her as a Mary Sue are quick to point out.
However, I will concede on the last point, which perhaps does ring true for Gwen. On the other hand, by doing this she does nothing but fulfill expectations places on any companion in the Who-verse. Like Sarah Jane, or Donna, or Amy, Gwen has done nothing more but be the vehicle in which we, as the audience, have been able to enter, explore, and enjoy the world of Torchwood.
I'd also like to point out that Gwen and Sarah Jane and Amy and any of them are no more Mary Sues than Harry Potter, or Oedipus, or Hamlet. Honestly, a man who's father just happens to die and he happens to see a ghost and his life happens to fall apart to the point that everyone dies around him? Sounds pretty contrived if you think about it, but in the end, that's what makes these stories interesting for us. If ordinary people getting involved in extraordinary circumstances is what makes a Mary Sue, then I really don't see what all the fuss is about.
Gwen is a whore who never loved Rhys/Jack/Owen/Trevor Kendall/Etc.
First off, a basic note on women (and men!): Having sex does not make someone a whore.
Yes, Gwen sleeps around a bit, probably a bit more than is good for her psyche. But, she is human, she has basic, instinctual needs, and anyone who knows how I play Gwen knows that the way I play her is that sex, for her, is a very important aspect for her when it comes to emotional struggle and finding people she can trust.
I think this is supported by canon. When her faith in Rhys falters, she turns to Owen. When it doesn't work out with Owen, she tends to pursue Jack with a little more vigor. This isn't because she doesn't love all three of them in her own way; it's because, at her heart, Gwen is confused and alone and desperate for understanding, and these three men offer her different ways to confront her own fears about herself.
She regrets her affair with Owen, because she knows she is hurting Rhys. She knows what she's done is wrong, but she knows she can't stop because if she does, she'll be lost. It's a crutch for her at times, yes, but sex does negate the fact that she still is still human and still cares about people. If she was using Owen, it was because she saw a choice: trust him or destroy herself. And Owen knew that. It was a clear, consensual arrangement, and even if it wasn't fair to Rhys, it does not, by default, make Gwen a bad person. Confused, lost and in need of guidance, yes. But not bad.
Gwen is trying to break up Jack and Ianto.
Just... no.
Jack is Gwen's best friend. Ianto is Gwen's confidant. Gwen may have very deep and raw feelings for Jack, but she wants him to be happy.
Not to mention, there isn't a single thing in canon that makes Gwen out to be some kind of Jack/Ianto homewrecker. She has enough issues with her relationship with Rhys, and yes, her love for Jack complicates that. But she knows where she belongs in the end, and canon backs that up with spades.
Gwen treats Rhys like shit.
Love is a two way street, and sometimes people don't hit the breaks fast enough.
Let's face it, Rhys says some pretty horrible things to Gwen and vice versa. And no, retconning him to admit her affair was not a great idea. But, like most of the characters in Torchwood, Rhys and Gwen are on a journey of experience, and sometimes the best way to take the next step in that journey is to do something so horribly and utterly wrong and learn from it. Which both Rhys and Gwen have. They aren't meant to be perfect, they are meant to discover themselves and what they truly mean to each other. Sometimes they don't go the best way about it, but it doesn't make their relationship sick or destructive, and it doesn't make Gwen a villain. It just makes them both real.
Gwen is too contradictory to be realistic.
I can't quite grasp the idea of a character being too complex, but I've seen the argument enough I can't exactly ignore it, either.
Gwen isn't any more or any less contradictory than real people. The best way to understand it is by thinking about what Mary told Tosh in Greeks Bearing Gifts about reading people's minds; people don't always think what they mean, and they don't even consciously think what they think. People, sometimes, just feel a way about something and it doesn't even make sense.
And it's no different for Gwen. She is multi-faceted, and sometimes her reactions to situations vary on her mood or her experience or whether or not she's had her morning coffee. Something that makes her cry one day may make her laugh the next. It's not unrealistic, it's human, and it's what makes her as interesting as any character.
Human beings are always contradictory, and that's what makes them realistic to begin with.
Eve Myles is a horrible person because she plays Gwen.
If anyone reading this honestly agrees with this sentiment, I want you to take a moment to read that sentence aloud.
Repeat until you realize how stupid the sentence sounds.
There's my soapbox for the evening. Feel free to question and discuss in the comments, now that you know my point of view on these various matters.
